Please add your comments and make a complaint to DB Management
Resort living in Discovery Bay
Here is one of the home-wreckers
These handheld pneumatic jackhammers are used to rip up concrete floors and walls. They are legal to use, even indoors, in HK. The noise they make is similar to the blasting of a heavy machine gun, and its impact percussions are conducted and amplified though the solid concrete walls of our flats. HKR/DB Management allows contractors to use these 6 days/week, from 9:00AM to 6:00PM.
updated Wed June 7th:
General consensus seems to be that tenants should seek compensation, or withhold rents, from landlords, and landlords/owners should withhold final payment for the job, and/or management fees to HKR/DB Management.
There is a Beach Village Owners committee meeting this Friday, June 9th at 7:30 PM in DB at the Management office (behind the Plaza apartments) ground floor, conference room #2 .
Everyone who has been negatively effected by this should come to this meeting.
We hope to see you there, and thanks to all who commented with their stories, advice and information.
Please add your comments to any of the posted articles below. We would like to build consensus for meeting and action, so please add (to this post) your thoughts on that as well, then check back to this site for updates.
Thanks,
Group1
And/or:
Complain directly to DB Management:
Ken Woodhouse
GM DB Operations
DB Office Centre, #2 Plaza Lane, DB
2238-3601
OR
Anthea Ho
Assistant Manager, Beach Village Estate
DB Office Centre, #2 Plaza Lane, DB
2238-3605
posted by Fredthom @ 5:09 pm
55 comments
55 Comments:
For 4 months now we cannot use our terrace because of all the baboo standing in the middle of it. When this will be all finished it will be too warm to use it. The paint work has not evolved since 2 months, did the stupid management not know the dates of raining season period in Hong Kong ? Do we pay 50.000 $/months for all this hell and not even be able to enjoy the outside of our flats ? not to mention the noise and dust. Thank you guys for all this hell in our lives- a mother of a newborn and a 4 years old.
lets all sue the Cha family and HKR
The other day at 17.30, a man came back to drill again in the corridor what had been drilled already 1 week ago. He seemed to enjoy making horrible noise again and tremendous dust all over the place. After 30 min he left. leaving behind him chaos, incomprehension, huge dust, stress and children screeming. What is the purpose of HKR management ? are you revenging of something ? We just arrived 8 months ago. What a great image of DB ! i wish the whole world knows about it.
I am a journalist and I am making my documentary of DB. I won't leave this chapter of my life unknown.
Let's meet. Does anyone know an activist lawyer who cares about quality of life issues in hk? Also, we should not meet at a venue controlled by HKR.
I think we should have a meeting and hire a lawyer. We should at least send an open letter to HKR telling them that they will get no rent or management fees from us until this is resolved to our satisfaction, with compensation agreed to and an apology given from HKR.
I have already complained to my landlord, but she said it was "all HKR's fault" and that she was "very angry" that they used her money to do this job!
Is it just me, or is this a very strange place to live?
We own 2 flats, and rent out one and live in the other. Though we agree that it is good to maintian the buildings, we are unhappy with the way HKR has gone about this. We have had to suffer all the trouble as everyone, besides we also suffer from our tenant being angry and his wife and children unhappy.
We are sure that HKR will not listen, but we want to make a complain too.
After putting up with the hacking off the tiles we have now been walkig on boards accross mess and ruble for weeks. Today we had to go over the wall in our back yard as the workman was putting soil all over the steps to lay the new tiles! Is there ever going to be an end to this mess and noise? DB is a living wa zone at the moment with no end in sight - surely we must get some kind of comopensation?
Owners are rightfully talking about compensation, but are in fact PAYING for this work to be done; ,,, and it isn't peanuts!
What annoyed me most was that no detailed time table was communicated before the start of the project and the dates on virtually all management notices were wrong. For example, the scaffolding on my building was supposed to be taken down on May 27; I removed all the items from my terrace but nothing happened for 10 DAYS. I have not yet received another notice and the scaffolding is still there!
How much effort, energy, and construction waste have gone into this project that makes DB look "century-old European" instead of decade-old Hong Kong? Does someone really think we can be fooled into thinking we are in Macau on holiday? The most recent inconvenience is having to pick up our temporary new mailbox keys in the management office. A logical person would have put the new keys in the old mailbox, but reason and efficiency are clearly in short supply here. Why are the "No Smoking at work" signs in ENGLISH?
The noise and vibration are so severe I can't tell when my electric toothbrush turns off.
Dear Management,
As a tenant it has been extremely difficult during this time. It feels as if we have been under construction for almost a year now. Not only is their inconvenience at home in Beach Village (strangers, noise, vibrations that have broken things inside), but also it takes considerably longer for the daily commute - having to walk around and through the plaza to get to the ferry.
Plus it has been impossible to use the terrace therefore a poor quality of life. There does not seem to be any solid plan for the renovation.
Why were we having to walk on exposed concrete stairs for weeks?
Why is the scaffolding still needed into the sixth month.
Why is it taking so *(&*&^ long?
What does HKR suggest - that I approach my landlord to get compensation from HKR and refund some of my rent??? Or should that just come directly from HKR?
I do not think that there is a single resident that is happy with the current state of DB both because of the Beach Village and the Plaza.
To the DB Resort Management,
Even to the untrained eye, the current "renovation" projects at Beach Village and the DB Plaza have provided textbook examples in how not to do a job; ranging from poor planning, wasteful use of resources, total lack of construction co-ordination according to a work schedule, lengthy periods of stagnation and inactivity, shoddy workmanship, unmotivated and seemingly unskilled workforce, weak mangagement supervision (of both contractors and disgruntled domestic tenants) and all compounded by a total lack of any response from HKR.
My personal experience of the work at Beach Village has been:-
- Scaffolding: Why is this still up 6 months after it was erected? It limits our use of the balconies, provides an unwanted security anxiety and is ugly.
As a sidenote, I had to give the hapless site manager a bollocking in Cantonese last weekend for compensation for a broken cat litter box, used by a scaffolding worker as a step-up way back in January. It took 6 months and many irate phone calls.
- Construction waste at ground level: Jagged open tins of industrial paint, huge cut planes of glass, sharp construction rubble etc lie around abandoned and untended without censure by HKR security. Given the number of curious children in DB it is a small miracle that no child has yet suffered a serious injury. Imagine the lawsuit that would follow if such a tragic event should happen. Glass and construction waste will, however, remain in the grass long after the labourers have gone.
- Human waste at ground level: The "workers' shanties" built at ground level have transformed parts of BV into the worst type of favela; workers' clothing, the detritus of living (bottles, plastic bags etc) and worst of all, the smell of human piss.
- Outside wall "Hacking off" work: Please explain why this was necessary. The resultant dust, noise and private enjoyment intrusion are all well-documented. I had a huge hole put through the study wall by careless and no doubt unskilled labour. The pathetic patch-up job is literally a band-aid.
- Outside wall painting: No attempt made by the labourers to mitigate the effects of falling paint. Slapdash paint splash all over a/c units, windows, bbqs, balcony furniture, plants etc with no attempt to clean up. Shoddy. Unacceptable in any other place.
- Inside wall "hacking off": Why was this necessary? Seemingly random rectangular (sometimes triangular) shapes hacked out of a wall, like a grotesque kid's game played by clueless labourers. Resultant dust, noise, intrusion, smoking in hallways keep up the invasion to the home occupier's right to quiet and peaceful enjoyment.
- Inside hall staircase tiling: Without doubt, the most poorly conceived works project of the lot - completely and utterly unnecessary and which has caused the most distress to my young family (and continues to do so). The noise and especially the fine cement dust particulates which permeated everywhere (including my children's lungs) have made me angry beyond belief. I had the good fortune of being able to relocate my family to an absent friend's home in Coastline when they were on vacation for a couple of weeks during the worst. The staircase is now a dangerous, dirty and abandoned site - nothing has been done on it for about two weeks and yet we continue to trudge up filthy and unsafe steps. Why the delays? WHY?
- Inside walls cement works: Another example of poor sloppy workmanship. Cement on windows, slopped all over the floor and most worryingly, I notice that the fire extinguishers parked in the corners are now monuments in concrete. The working parts of these seem to be encased. I intend to complain to the Fire Department to see whether any building fire regulations have been breached.
The site manager (who copped an earful from me last weekend) has no idea when the project will be finished. It is not his fault. He is just a cog in a brainless, uncoordinated machine.
- DB Plaza & crazy paving: Whoever came up with the idea of the Macau-style cobblestones should publicly own up to all the residents of DB. It is woefully ill-conceived, as anybody pushing a baby stroller would know. A sleeping baby would be jolted awake by the cobblestone ride, those already awake would have teeth loosened. The workmanship is there to see. Imagine yourself a works inspector of the Plaza - how many "snags" or major work faults would you, as a layperson, find?
Plaza user friendly? Why also are there no park benches planned - they could be placed under the trees at the upper part of the Plaza.
- Compensation: An approach to the landlord brought only insincere noises. What does a landlord care if he is taking in $30K+ per month and he knows he can charge more when this "renovation" project is finally finished? Compensation from HKR? The same people who don't even acknowledge that there is a problem would hardly pay up to those who have suffered as a result of that problem. The whole pointless, costly and stressful exercise is aimed at HKR charging more for units in the future, perpetuating the rent/purchase price cycle to their advantage.
What a sick environment we make for our children, where corporate greed for future profits overrides our current right to enjoyment of our homes. They only see dollar signs where the Beach Village homes contain people, young and old trying to live their lives safely and peacefully.
I note that the Mandarin Hotel has closed down for renovations and yet we continue to pay Mandarin Hotel-like rates of HK$1,000+ per day to live in a construction site for more than 6 months. This is clearly unacceptable.
I would urge all residents of Beach Village and DB generally to take the fight to HKR and to say "Enough is enough". Make our feelings known to those who may be foolish to think that because "professional" people are not complaining en masse, there is no problem.
Complain directly to DB Management:
Ken Woodhouse
GM DB Operations
DB Office Centre, #2 Plaza Lane, DB
2238-3601
OR
Anthea Ho
Assistant Manager, Beach Village Estate
DB Office Centre, #2 Plaza Lane, DB
2238-3605
I think the idea of renovating a building while the occupants live inside and around it all for months is insane. In this case was the Beach Village reno really necessary, if it was they could have organized it a hell of a lot better. Secondly how ridiculous that they focussed on tapping walls and major patch jobs when they should have dealt with the abysmal drainage system in these flats. Besides the pain of living in a cave for months, the obvious inconveniences, I worry about what happens 6-12 years from now when we realize our kids have permanent hearing damage from being exposed or worse lung cancer from the airborne concrete dust. I got my family out of here when there was major drilling, I wasnt about to take the chance.
In nine years of working in the HK construction industry I have never seen a construction project more poorly organized or with less consideration for the people affected. Some examples:
-On my building work which should have taken four to six weeks is still not completed after six months. Repeatedly the contractor would chip off plastering in one area, let it sit for a month before re-plastering, then let it sit for another month before painting, then start the process all over again in an adjacent area. Such a programme would be wholly unacceptable for most clients, particularly when the work is being carried out on occupied buildings.
-The floor tiles in my stairway were chipped off, the debris covered with plywood, and new tiles/sand/cement stacked outside. Everyone entering my building, including children, had to navigate through this hazardous mess for six weeks, instead of the three or four days the work should have taken to complete. Anywhere else in the world the contractor would have been terminated if not sued for turning a public entrance (and required means of escape) into an unprotected construction site and then leaving it unattended for days at a time. As of today the new tiles have still not been cleaned nor all of the debris removed.
-In addition to blatant disregard for the resident’s comfort and safety there is also a high degree of stupidity involved on the part of whoever organized this work. After five months of re-plastering and repainting our stairway portions of the new work were chipped out to install a new door & associated wiring, and have not yet been patched. Furthermore, while the new doorframe has been installed the new door has not. I expect that if the new door is ever installed another month of noise, dust, and laughably slow work will occur for removal of the old door. This is nothing but sheer incompetence.
I was alerted to this site and although not living in DB at the moment, most certainly agree with the issues raised here. At my last visit, the entire place looked like a huge construction site, and even though it was before they took down the walls, the noise was awful.
Anyway, I have added a link to your page on the Discovery Bay wikipedia article under "Issues and criticisms:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_Bay#Issues_and_criticisms
I am not sure whether you are familiar with Wikipedia but it is a freely editable encyclopedia - so feel free to edit the entry to better reflect the issues raised in this site.
I have spoken to DB Management and they claim it is the sole responsibility of the owners for both the scope of the "renovation" as well as the disastrous results. DB Management says that their job was only to “coordinate” the work.
My landlord claims the whole project and its management is the responsibility of HKR/DB Management.
I am going to have to make a claim against my landlord because they are the party with whom I have a contract, but I am reluctant to do so because I strongly suspect that individual owners like my landlord had no control or say in either the conception or the execution of the job.
As an owner who has lived through this "renovation", I urge all other owners, who havent done so all ready, to withhold the second payment to HKR for our delightfull reno's. Action does not come from reaction from words, Action comes from reaction from ACTION. HKR loves money, so great DONT GIVE IT TO THEM! When enough people hold back their "life blood" only then will they react.
To all renters. If you were forwarned by your landlord or told of this before you moved in, well hey you were told. If you were NOT told, hold back a months rent with a note saying why. The landlords may scream but they will also pass on the pain to HKR. All Landlords who have renters who have with held rent money, stop paying HKR managemnet fees for a length of time equal to rent you didnt get. Money is the only thing HKR understands, OK then, stop giving it to them. Maybe after that they will get the hint
My landlord just offered me a month's rent free cause of the noise. I am ok with that. He says he'll seek a refund of that amount from what they have to pay to the contractor, or he won't pay managemnt fees, either way he won't bear the month's loss himself. I thought that was pretty cool, but them he wants to get me to renew the lease so I guess he is a motivated owner!! Anyway, thanks for the blog, this way I knew what to say and I think that made the difference.
I have a suggestion. Everyone chill!! I'm an expat resident AND an owner so I'm paying serious bucks for this mess. Am I pissed off? You bet your ass I am!! Lets not get hysterical though. Women and young girls in danger of rape?? Give me a break!!! This is Hong Kong. When was the last crime that serious committed against an expat by a local?? 198? at Braemar Hill(sp?). So lets not get hysterical.
Lets be reasonable with reasonable arguments and we are sure to be paid more attention than if our arguments are unfounded, speculative and unreasonable.
Do I think we have a case? My word we do!! I have damage to almost every part of my outside living space. HKR pass the buck to the contractor and the contractor wont return my dozen (or more) calls. Is the previous writer correct about peeing under our buildings? He sure is. A guy pee'd on my kayak down there. However.... if you were them...where would you go?? There are no provisions for them. OK..so you'd quit before doing that?...Sure. But bear in mind..if they were rocket scientists they'd be doing rocket science. Just like every country in our precious "developed world"......Wake up call. It doesn't matter where your from ther are people who would resort to peeing under your building given no choice. In fact, if you are a westerner (as I am) I dare say given the opportunity there would be people in the very city your from who would pee on you, scratch the paintwork of your new car, vandalise your property and chastise everything you stand for just because you make a descent crust.
For the record I went to every owners committee meeting I could in the runnup to these reno's. I tried to make a difference. In fact I tried to get much more done than is being implemented now.
Did I fail?... Sure. But I tried.
In the end the owners voted for the cheapest possible option by the cheapest contractor who was, incidentally, already being sued by another
village owners committee in DB. As my Canadian friends would say.. "Go Figure"
My closing statement.
HKR buid crap quality.
Try going to Caribean coast in Tung Chung and comparing to the likes of Sienna hi-rise. Not even close my friend. HKR do things on the cheap. Always have, always will. I have a million examples but I'll leave you with just one.
There are small "star lights" placed under the new stone paving in the plaza?....At what cost? oh about HKD 2 Million. How many of them do you think will work??.. Answer. Minimal if any...probably none. The reason?? They skimped and used a contractor who under quoted everyone else. Result?... the fibre optic cable was laid directly under the stones without laying it through (conduit) tubing and the stones were then tapped into position on top of it. The lights are laid in the gaps between the dark stones. look for yourself. $2 Million worth of all your management fees just up in smoke. And thats only one example.
Conclusion.
HKR is the culprit plain and simple. People would do a better job if they paid em more. So that why your houses are in need of massive renovation.
Your absolutely stupid landlords are , however, responsible for voting for the cheapest job possible and hence the mess your in now.
Incidentally...DID YOU KNOW the Chairlady of the Beach VOC is also chairlady for 3 other villages in DB?Can she really look after all your best interests AND those of 2 other villages AND hold a full time job?
....... AND ( I thought this was DISGUSTING!!) did you know there are MORE than several members of your village owners committe, who make decisions on your behalf regularly,who own a place in Beach village..... and rent it out. They don't even live in DB. Its not a requirement.They live in town.
Carpe Diem
When I tell people where I live- Discovery Bay- I usually get the same response- oh, that's a nice place. Now I quickly correct them and tell of the hideous experience in the Plaza and Seabird Lane. In nine months we have not opened our windows once because of noise, dust or smell. Our inside walls have streaks running down where high-pressure water was blown through our air-conditioners and our floors are constantly filthy from unfinished work. Our once nice roof tiles are speckled with paint and there is a rusty metal spike outside of my window. The building looks no better inside or out- just dirtier with a heavy cost to the environment from the construction waste. There was no need to drill the inside walls and tiles. The outside of the building could have been power washed and painted which doesn't cause much noise. Every sheet I received about work progress was days, months or weeks behind. I wouldn't tell anyone now that DB is a nice place to live.
I have lost business due to the renovation. My clients have understandably refused to enter my flat because the staircase was jackhammered apart with dangerous rubble everywhere.
Has anyone else ever thought that the reason they don't care about the terrible effect this would have on us here in Beach Village is because most of us are expats and they just don't like foriegners?
Maybe, but I think it is just that so many of the owners of Beach are non-resident investor owners. for them the problems are abstract, and they do not really care as long as it does not cost them too much and as long as they do not lose anything from the tenant. THAT IS WHY ALL TENANTS MUCH MAKE A CLAIM AGAINST THEIR LANDLORDS. IT IS THE ONLY WAY TO GET SOMETHING BACK FOR HAVING TO PUT UP WITH THIS. Also, it will make them all think twice about doing this again.
The main issue is the management problem of the project team. It is the management company and the cosultants team who should be blamed and get the compensation. I just wonder why the owners have to pay for the "extra cost" on top of the renovation fee (at least not for those who have already informed the tenanat before they entered the tenancy agreement) It is also unfair to the owners !!!!!!!!!!!
Today is the THIRD TIME they have redone the walls inside, meaning jackhammering all of the concrete out AGAIN!!!
How many times do they need to redo it to get it right?
The way these renovations are being done is completely unacceptable and unprofessional.
Very pretty site! Keep working. thnx!
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